10 / 52
I
T’S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to imagine the early AIDS
years without Larry Kramer, who became the de facto
conscience of the plague in the 1980s. His 1978 novel
Faggots
almost seemed to anticipate AIDS, with its par-
ody of gay men caught up in hedonism and unrestrained
sex. His anger at an inept healthcare system, evil politi-
cians, and closeted gays crystallized in
The Normal Heart
, the
landmark play about the early battles against AIDS in New York
City. He cofounded the Gay Men’s Health Crisis in 1982 and led
the establishment of
ACT UP
in 1987.
Kramer has always had his detractors, notably those who
felt he came down too harshly on many of his gay brothers. But
it now seems we’re in a Larry Kramer moment.
The Normal
Heart
finally came to the screen last year on HBO, winning the
Emmy for Outstanding TV Movie. He is the subject of a feature-
length documentary,
Larry Kramer in Love and Anger
, directed
by Jean Carlomusto, which aired on HBO in June.
And then there’s the new book.
The American People
is a
775-page, swaggering historical epic, a novel that seethes with
Kramer’s anger at a country he believes has a great deal to an-
swer for.
Volume 1: Search for My Heart
is already dividing
critics with its unusual journey through time, ranging from
Kirkus’ starred verdict that the book is “breathtakingly well
written” to the
Times’
Dwight Garner’s crack that, due to its
vast cast of characters, “like an old toilet, it is easily clogged.”
Kramer fielded questions via e-mail relay in early May.
Matthew Hays:
Since this is for the “movie issue,” let me start
by asking you about that intensely erotic male wrestling scene
in
Women in Love
, for which you wrote the screenplay. Was
there a lot of difficulty getting it filmed? It’s racy even by
today’s standards. I’d be surprised if the studio hadn’t put up a
bit of a fight about it.
Larry Kramer:
The film was made in Britain for a very liberal
American company, United Artists. Contractually I had to de-
liver a film that was release-able, which meant approval by the
UK censor, Sir John Trevelyan. He’d been sent a copy of the
script before we began shooting, and he pointed out the number
of places where we might encounter difficulties—not only the
wrestling scene but also the two straight sex scenes, one for each
of the sisters. (By the way, I go into great detail on the making
of this film in my book,
Women In Love and Other Dramatic
Writings
, a Grove paperback.)
When we came to shoot all three of these scenes, we fol-
lowed the text of D. H. Lawrence’s novel faithfully. The dia-
INTERVIEW
L
ARRY
K
RAMER
Matthew Hays teaches film studies at Marianopolis College and Con-
cordia University in Montreal.
logue is from the book, as are the sets, which were made as
Lawrence described them, and he was great at describing in de-
tail what places looked like and what the women were wearing.
We paid particular attention to the room and fireplace for the
wrestling scene. So when we came to John, we said, “Here, this
is all verbatim in the book, now considered a classic that is stud-
ied in school and has been in print since 1920.” He bought this,
asking for a few little cuts so he could save face. It was the first
[studio] movie that had “full frontal male nudity,” as it came to
be called. Since it was such a huge success in London, UA de-
cided to release it in America as is, even though in both coun-
tries it was X-rated.
Shooting the male wrestling scene was a complicated mat-
ter. Oliver Reed didn’t want to do it and actually brought in a
letter from his doctor saying he had a bad shoulder, or some
such, and to use a double instead. Ken Russell, our director, had
worked with Oliver before on a number of TV docudramas and
knew him well enough to tell him to cut the crap; he was going
to do it. Not only that, but they were falling on a stone floor
under a thin rug, because at the last minute Ken yanked out the
felt padding under the rug, since you could tell it was something
soft. Alan Bates, always a gentleman, was gay, and Oliver, who
was a pain in the ass, probably sensed this. He also noted that
Alan’s cock was bigger, so before every set-up, Oliver played
with himself to make his dick bigger, which you can only dimly
note. Both guys took healthy swallows of scotch to calm them-
selves down.
MH:
You’ve been so controversial for so long. But now, with
The Normal Heart
getting the HBO treatment, the documentary
on you, and the book, I feel like we’re in the middle of a Larry
Kramer moment. Some are saying you were right about every-
thing all along. Do you feel vindicated?
LK:
I never pat myself on the back. There are still too many
‘I just want them to take the journey.’
Matthew Hays talks with the author of
The American People
10
The Gay & Lesbian Review
/
WORLDWIDE
Alan Bates and Oliver Reed, spent after wrestling in
Women in Love.